Earthchangers College

Raising vibrations to help humanity




Hear the snarls and sneers, see the aging allegations being thrown around,

observe cult mentalities in action, and find out what really lies behind those happy-face masks.

And don't forget to check back when you need a good laugh, because the circus has come to town!


This blog documents attacks from  You will see recurring themes which are highly suggestive of coming from one source, that source being Nancy Lieder, owner of and de facto owner of  I will be posting the newest rants on the bottom (reverse order is too hard to follow).  I have provided dates and times since links seem to be quickly outdated as new articles are posted (i.e., they are pushed backwards to earlier page numbers since the newest additions are always on page 1 in blogs, so scroll if the links don't hit it just right, or use the dates and times as a guide).


On 6/19/2011, we were visited by Mark, acting in his official capacity as a poleshift.ning moderator, here to "set us right" and, failing that, try to discredit us and get some of our members to jump ship over to poleshift.ning.  Here's what he had to say...

"honestly Cheryl you have lost the plot girl - why on earth do you spend your days trying to debunk what is said on Zetatalk when the premise for your whole site is based on the information that they have provided?

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you - you wouldn't even know anything at all about the possibility of a poleshift if it wasn't for Zetatalk.  But you choose to take their words, twist them and then present what comes out as your own pronouncements as to what will happen regarding a potential poleshift.

A case in point is where you give your own guidelines as to safe heights to be inland and above sea level to survive the poleshift - different from the advice on the ZT site but still the same advice essentially - just the numbers altered to make it sound like you are the authority on the subject.

And also the amount of time you spend attacking ZT on your site (like in this post) when they are your bread and butter - you just can't admit that to yourself or to your small number of followers.

Then you make the situation worse for yourself by promoting establishment lies like comet Elenin, which makes you no better than a government shill. 

I mean, seriously, you've read something that provides you with some weak material that enables you to try and debunk a single ZT article from 5 years ago!!!  Your are obviously desperate!

When the earthchanges really pick up and the 7/10 events eventually hit the news, who do you think the public will turn to for information - your ning or Gerard's ning and Zetatalk?

You will very quickly become irrelevant but no doubt you will still be here spouting your crap, not realising that no-one is listening anymore.



"Larry" posted these comments on the Elenin/Dwarf Star JPL Event Timeline blog @

Comment by Larry on July 6, 2011 at 1:37pm

I have carefully looked into matters and reached a conclusion:  This is a ZetaTalk debunking site and not much more!  Cheryl Nelson left the Pole Shift Ning when she was involuntarily removed as a moderator (no matter what else she claims).  Until that happened she fullly accepted that something big is coming and no government is telling the common man what it is and that thing is PLANET X!

So Cheryl, being power mad and INSANELY jealous of the attention Nancy Lieder receives as the only true emissary of the Zetas, started her own ning where she could be in complete control.  ZetaTalk that Cheryl used to accept as true became NZL (Nancy ZetaTalk?) instead in a pathetic attempt to explain away Nancy, ZetaTalk and the Pole Shift Ning she used to support.

Sounds like sour grapes and a sore loser to me!

But guess what?  Although black ops agents early identified Cheryl as a possible way to bring down the Pole Shift Ning, the joke is on her!  This "ning" is crawling with professional debunkers who are pushing ANYTHING other than Planet X as the true cause of the now obvious, unexplained earth changes.

Furthermore, Cheryl is NOT what she claims to be:  An Old Soul with an important mission or role (ALL Old Souls on earth are Star Children and a Cheryl is an immature earth soul).  Please give me a major league break!  In communication with "good" Zetas?  CZL (Cheryl ZetaTalk, all made up to make herself look as important as Nancy because the evidence is going against Cheryl, her handlers, and the dupes on here).

Go ahead and suspend me.  Don't care!  I am wasting my time here as others have discovered for themselves.  But I will watch to see if all the Comet Elenin blogs disappear when a puny comet does NOT cause a pole shift in September or October 2011.  How do I know?  Becuase this site NEVER, EVER admits the HUGE number of past failed predictions on here.  That's how I know.

The sad part:  When all of you realized you have been duped by someone taking orders from agents who are trying to take down ZetaTalk and the Pole Shift Ning as soon as possible because they are the PRIMARY source for spreading the Truth, you will probably not remember who was telling the TRUTH all along because you will be too busy rushing to prepare for the pole shift and precursor disaters caused by PLANET X, that's why!  Good luck and please remember this lesson.  Just because syrup drips from someone's mouth does NOT mean they are service to other, not at all.


Here are my reponses on the ELEnin/Dwarf Star JPL Event Timeline blog ...

Comment by Cheryl Nelson on July 6, 2011 at 7:10pm

Oh, Larry, Larry, Larry.  You've been so programmed by Miss Lieder, you sound just like her.  How do you like sounding like a 70-year old woman suffering from senile dementia?  I pity you so.  Everything you say is not original, as she has said it first and the others she sends here sound just like her too. You are just a wind-up doll doing her dirty work and when the axe falls (and it's coming) you will fall with it and she'll just scurry away leaving others holding her bag of dirty tricks. 

If she really is with the Zs, how come this site continues to exist despite her venomous assaults?  Because it is her schoolhouse lesson in how to learn typical gov't disinfo tactics?  How come all she can throw at us is trolls from NY (not Plano, TX)?  Or how about poleshift.ning moderator Mark?  You types come in to do a quick shit and run, always.  Well, that's SOP.  Now that you've done your S&R, please wipe your butt on the way out. 

You think you've done your homework on me?  LOL, you and your comrades haven't said anything true about me yet; nothing but parroting the lies that is your daily food.  Aren't you getting sick of the rants?  Aren't you a bit off target trying to silence another voice warning people of potential disasters?  Do you really think seven billion people are going to come to poleshift.ning?  Most of the planet's people don't even have internet.  Even a billion people would crash the servers.  What an ass she is to hang on to a monopoly.  By doing her ego trip, she is denying so many people information.  We NEED more sites like this.  But Miss Lieder was soooo against that idea because of her ego tripping.  Get real, man.  Everyone can't possibly turn to zetatalk and psning during the 11th hour, it would be impossible.

So, good boy, Mr. Lap Dog, you did your duty/doodie, but you accomplished nothing except prove my point about what's going on over at psning and what a piece of work Miss Lieder truly is. 

But you certainly haven't done your homework on Miss Lieder, now have you?  I rebutted all her snarling, sneering allegations last year WITH PROOF.  Seen it yet?  If you haven't, well then you haven't done all your homework.  Bet she hasn't even told you it exists.  She, on the other hand, has proven nothing that I am what she claims I am.  She offers NOTHING except empty, unprovable words.  And yes, I have witnessed her using false ZT on me.  And yes, I have found holes in ZT science.  And I and others have witnessed her have a psychotic break.  THAT is why she's gunning for me.  To silence the truth. 

And, back then, she equated me with Mother Teresa.  And I still have the email.  Gasp!  Was Mother Nancy wrong?  Back then, no.  (Don't construe that to mean that I think I am anything like Mother Teresa, but I am STO, and just for the record, I've had readings from several channels who independently confirm that I am a star child, an old soul.)  So, what changed her mind?  Jealousy.  She's a stage hog.  No one but her is going to be the star.  The thing she totally missed is I have no desire for limelight or power or anything of that ilk.  I wasn't jealous of her at all.  In fact, I was rather fond of her until she had her psychotic break.  (Remember DR, Shadow & Karen Lee were all there and witnessed it too.) 

Anyway, jealousy, power and all that are low vibration third density traps which she has squarely fallen into.  Why would I take the abuse I get here, solely from her or her people, if I wasn't here on a mission to inform people of the coming danger?  I stay at my post despite all your fantasies. 

Actually, though, Nancy has proven one thing:  she has proven that she is a vile, slanderous STS has-been who has undue influence over the minds of vulnerable people.  Like yourself. 

You are here to do nothing but disrupt.  No one here buys your kind of talk because people have gotten to know me and I have long-ago proven Miss Lieder to be something less than a truthful, STO being.  So, you are talking to the air.  And your own vicious attack proves you aren't an STO being either.  Funny how like attracts like, isn't it?  Well, she and your type can say all you want.  My hands are clean. 

When you are inside a cult, you think you and your comrades are the only sane ones.  But everyone on the outside of the cult see an entirely different picture. You can't see how crazy you sound and how lame your arguments are and how all the sneering and snarling makes you look like an incredibly nasty person.  Everything you said about me is baseless.  Where's the proof?  Because Nancy said so?  Or Nancy said the Zetas said so?  That's not proof.  There is no documentary evidence.  There are no witnesses.  She can say anything she pleases and who can verify it?  That's dangerous.  Look at Harold Camping.  How is Nancy any different from him?

However, no matter how nasty your comment was, I will turn your pathetic attempt at "attack" into something good.

[This "discussion" continues onto the Classic Attacks blog.]



"Larry's next response appears on this, the Classic Attacks, blog @ 

Larry denies he has any connection with poleshift.ning, GZ or NL, yet he talks just like them.  If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck...well, then, it must be a duck! 

Comment by Larry on July 7, 2011 at 12:41pm:

Wow.  Thanks, Cheryl, for proving my points!

First of all you have ZERO evidence that I have anything to do with the Pole Shift Ning, Gerard Zwaan, or Nancyd Lieder.  But you went right ahead and ASSUMED there is a connection. 

Then you made a blog based on my comment and the comment of another person (who I assume is a moderator at the Pole Shift Ning, but how does Cheryl know that, got a list of the moderators to peruse?).

And talk about PARANOID!  Double wow!  Cheryl Nelson is practically the definition of paranoid based on insisting on IP addresses for all members, preapproval of all memberships, and choosing to take legit concerns about this site to such a level IMMEDIATELY.  Scared, Cheryl, of the truth getting out about you and this site being a ZetaTalk debunking site?

Cheryl has almost no idea how her OWN posts all over the internet actually make her look like a complete fool.  Cheryl apparently THINKS she is smarter than everyone else.  Most people can recognize when someone is simply DISGRUNTLED and not legit, not trying to help people, just trying to make her own points no matter how absurd (like Comet Elenin being anything more than a small comet), and that is Cheryl Nelson.

No one made you start this "ning" did they Cheryl?  But you want to CONTROL everything and LIE in the process, whatever it takes!

Please provide PROOF that I am connected to ZetaTalk or the Pole Shift Ning.  There will be no proof because you cannot prove it (even with my IP address and email address).

At least I have evidence for my statements.  Cheryl has ZERO evidence about me, simply jumped to CRAZY conclusions so she can leave my comment up and make a blog based on it (rather than delete it because that would expose Cheryl's LIE that she never suspends members or deletes anything because she does both).

So including my comment as coming from the Pole Shift Ning is a total falsehood based on nothing.

Thanks, again, Cheryl for proving me right about you.  You need professional help, the sooner the better.

I seriously doubt Nancy Lieder cares anything about your pathetic "ning."  You are grasping at straws to defend your obvious hatred of a woman who IS spreading the truth (unlike you, who allows anything on here, no matter how crazy, as long as it debunks ZetaTalk).

I will come back in the Fall when Comet Elenin passes without causing anything.  What will all you dupes say then?  How about when the earth changes continue to get worse AFTER Comet Elenin passes far from earth?  I guess whatever Cheryl's handlers decide is the next cover-up lie will be what this ning becomes.

p.s.  Count how many members actually post here, it is a tiny number.  Count how many people post on the Pole Shift Ning:  A HUGE number.  That should tell those with an open mind where the real action about earth changes, and it is NOT this "ning."  Good luck when you can all see Planet X with your own eyes and realize you have been duped!





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Comment by nicholas fowler on March 30, 2012 at 1:34am

the first sign of being delusional is denial, of it, perhaps.. enough said perhaps of all this, now talk about the weather?  just listening to Jim maccaney, talking about ZT ad NL, 29th broadcast, very quick to archive the show, still listening to him. great show by the way.

Comment by Keith H on March 30, 2012 at 1:29am

I only posted the dysfunctional part, the site goes into much more depth regarding cults.  NL is the first to deny that she is a cult leader!

Comment by nicholas fowler on March 30, 2012 at 1:04am

well done Keith, for finding this. the last paragraphs of it really sums it all up. I have only glanced through it, but it covers in depth what we are talking about here. maybe you could post this to Nancy---- only joking!!!!!!

Comment by Keith H on March 30, 2012 at 12:53am
Comment by Keith H on March 30, 2012 at 12:49am

A little about cults:

* Craving for followers; seductive recruiting strategies or heavy-handed tactics of proselytizing or conversion (including “love bombing,” that is, showering prospective recruits with friendly, but strategic, attention). If the spiritual movement is pure and its members are radiant with virtuous qualities and deep spiritual realization, new people will be attracted to the movement intuitively, spontaneously, and naturally. The movement won’t need to pursue anyone with a hyped sales pitch that exploits people’s desires, fears, or insecurities in their quest for meaning and fulfillment.

* Intimidating indoctrination procedures that psychologically break a person down (suppressing old behaviors, attitudes, and relationships) so that s/he can be rebuilt according to the group’s ideal of a docile, unquestioning, compliant member. [3]

* Expensive entry fees or initiations. In fact, the less the group has to do with money, the better. The greatest spiritual masters charge no money whatsoever for sharing their love and guidance. Their work is supported via voluntary donations from those who can easily afford it or are inspired to give without being asked. Beware groups that demand from members much or all of their assets. (Presently some 500 cults in the United States, most of them Christian, demand all assets from members.) A small tithe isn’t necessarily exploitative if all monies serve reasonable purposes and can be accounted for upon request.

* A hidden agenda that becomes known to a group member only after s/he is heavily invested in the cult membership. In a healthy spiritual group, completely informed consent is standard policy. Hence, there should be no use of front names masking the group’s real affiliation.

* Excessive demands on the time and energy of the group members. Slave labor, overwork, or sleep/food deprivation demanded on behalf of the group as proof of loyalty. Obsessive scheduling, such that every moment of one’s waking life is controlled by the group. In a healthy group, members’ donation of their time and energy are a voluntary gift, not compelled.

* Trapping or holding onto members. People should be able to leave the group at any time for any reason without fear of damnation, reprisal, scorn, or being pursued or shunned by cult members.

* Theological thought control. Members should be free to worship Divinity under whatever Name and Form they so choose (God the Father, Goddess Mother, formless YHVH/Allah/Godhead, Christ, Krishna, Siva, Brahman, Amida, Tao, Buddhata), short of harming or grossly offending others.

* Cultivation in members any attitude of childish dependency upon exploitative, authoritarian leaders who require absolute, exclusive devotion. Jesus enjoined us to be “child-like,” not childish. Surrender to God is fine, and even some forms of hierarchical relationship are healthy and empowering (e.g., student-teacher, apprentice-master, and disciple-guru). But let us beware any disempowerment strategies that leave members feeling inadequate, without autonomy or inner locus of control, and no real hope of ever reaching the same (or nearly the same) spiritual level as the leader. A leader may teach that we need to lose egocentricity and selfish desires, but s/he will always articulate an empowering view that Divine Spirit is as much within our hearts as within the leader. This immanent Divinity is accessible via our own direct, interior connection with the God-Self, without mediation by the leader and any delegates or cronies.

* Chronic group feeling of righteous anger, revenge, turmoil, anxiety, shame, guilt, self-pity, fear, despair, mindless euphoria, ego-excitement, adrenaline rushes, self-inflated fervor or futuristic anticipation. Authentic spiritual movements are permeated by a deep feeling of genuine love, kindness, peace, freedom, bliss, ease of being, spontaneity, focus on the present situation and trust in Spirit or God.

* Flat affect (zombie-like absence of emotions). Excessively automatic, robot-like behavior. Radically de-automatized behavior (produced via sleep deprivation or sensory overload) that breaks down normal, responsible functioning.

* Crusading agenda to save the world or convert all souls to “the true way.” A healthy spirituality emphasizes becoming individually transformed so that one is better aligned with the God-Self and involved in a simple, non-grandiose form of service to one’s fellow beings. For a healthy spiritual group, service and giving are defined primarily as charitable assistance and generosity toward one’s community, family, friends, and the world at large, not slavish service toward the narrow, voracious cult.

* Proud feeling of being the chosen people, of possessing the exclusive truth or means of salvation, or being superior to those outside the group. Heavily polarized “us-them,” adversarial thinking, projection of one’s own shadow qualities onto others, seeing outsiders as homogeneously negative, devoid of positive qualities (“they” are “bad” and “we” are “good”). Rigid boundaries and isolation between insiders and outsiders. Petty criticism, stereotyping or devaluing of outsiders. (Deikman: “Devaluing the outsider is... preliminary to harming others.... Whether the conflict is between nations or individuals, the attacker devalues the victim prior to the violent act.... The person you devalue becomes easier to kill.” [4] ) Dysfunctional groups chronically emphasize the differences between group members and outsiders, at the expense of seeing the essential oneness we all share on human and spiritual levels.

* A chronic need to find and persistently maintain enemies inside or outside the group. Targeting or isolating of anyone inside or outside the group as a source of evil or contamination or “bad energy.” Negative thought-forms aimed at others. By contrast, in healthy spirituality, the leader and group promote empathy, compassion, respect, and seeing the Divine in all beings: “Love thy neighbor” and “love thy enemy” (who is therefore no longer “the enemy”).

* Paranoia—either delusions of grandeur by the leader or group, or self-pitying feelings of being persecuted and misunderstood by outsiders. Healthy, continuing contact and discussion with people and institutions outside the group will usually prevent or obviate any persecution and misunderstanding that might arise.

* Turning cult members into watched objects who have no privacy in their solitary behavior or relationships with others. Manipulative system of rewards and punishments. Totalitarian structure of permission and non-permission regarding basic behaviors including personal hygiene, interpersonal communication, etc. Orwellian system of informers who convey information to leaders about persons behind their back. Machiavellian techniques of setting members against each other or against outsiders. Ganging up on individual members to criticize or humiliate or coerce them; “working on them” to violate their own sense of conscience or autonomy. Brainwashing or mind-control techniques or high-pressure group dynamics coercing members to conform to a worldview, agenda, or code of conduct. Physical or psychological violence. Giving and withholding of love or praise as a manipulation technique. Frequent testing of members for loyalty, commitment, or obedience.

* Preventing contact with outsiders, ex-members, and even certain fellow members of the dysfunctional cult. Breaking up couples and families to gain power over individuals and prevent coalitions that could more effectively criticize unsound, corrupt leadership. Rigid isolating of cult members in an exclusive "family" away from their relatives and friends outside the cult so that the cult becomes the sole source for support, self-esteem and interpersonal connection. Isolating cult members from other members, even for short periods, in solitary confinement or quarantine to break them down and manipulate their views/behaviors.

* Blind obedience to harmful or unwise directives from on high. Abusive, domineering top-dog leadership. In healthy groups, the leader(s) functions more as an advisor and inspirer rather than as “control freak” dictating how members should think and act. Members are never threatened or subordinated in ruthless, bullying manner. There may be a period of time where an authentic spiritual director/guru needs to test the disciple, but this is done within the overall context of genuine love, trust, and emotional safety, not as a power-trip by the leader. Any tests must be for the sole purpose of strengthening the student’s own skills and virtues, not demanding obedience and loyalty.

* Hoarding of money, power or prestige by anyone— corruption and intrigue are not far behind. Beware lavish accommodations and lifestyle for leader and close assistants, while everyone else is reduced to inferior living standards. Beware the presence of sycophantic subordinates who inauthentically emulate and slavishly propitiate the leader and act as the leader’s agents of control and punishment of cult members.

* Double standard of behavior for leader(s) and members. Spiritual leaders should maintain high moral standards and exemplary virtuous behavior. Beware any rationalizations given to excuse the leader’s unvirtuous behavior as well as self-aggrandizing, vanity and excessive self-referencing by the leader (e.g., “I am the World Teacher,” “I am the greatest incarnation of God to appear on this planet,” “think always and only of me,” etc.). A genuine spiritual leader is humble, giving, self-sacrificing, loving, blissful and serene —consistent with an authentic, trans-egoic realization of Divine Spirit (God, Tao, Buddhata, Brahman). Any claims by the leader of being divine should be balanced with declarations that the followers have divinity within them as well, as part of an overall theology of immanence (best balanced with a teaching of divine transcendence—see below). Important, too, is how the leader came to be the leader. Grandiose promotional claims (either by the teacher or by his/her followers) or one-upsmanship and huckster techniques are not acceptable. Beware fallen yogis and their flashy charisma and psychic powers, which can seem quite impressive. If other respected spiritual masters recognize the leader as a spiritual master, this is a promising sign, but still does not insure anything. Bottom-line criterion: “By their fruits you shall know them.” If the leader doesn’t have an inspiring, healthy, positively transforming effect on students, promoting qualities of mature and balanced spirituality, the students would do best to leave.

* Reinforcing or excusing unethical behaviors (killing, injuring, lying, stealing, plagiarism, bribing, gossiping, sexual misconduct). Also: Inflexible ethical rules that keep people stuck on lower levels of moral development. For example, watch out for moral codes based on “an eye-for-an-eye” mentality or “the ends justify the means.”

* Suppression of dissent, doubt, critical thinking, sincere questions, discussion or independent judgment. Regarding of leader’s or sacred text’s teachings as infallible. Attachment to doctrinal certainty. Members should be free to follow their own informed reason and moral conscience in preference to the directives of the leader, group or text. Yet healthy spirituality also challenges one to develop the conscience to its utmost through ongoing learning and maturation.

* Irrational thinking or magical thinking. Among healthy, empowering groups, supra-rational thinking and use of paradox is fine, in accordance with the mature mystical traditions as found within circles of Christianity, Judaism (Hasidism), Islam (Sufism), Vedanta, Buddhism and Taoism. These authentic mystical traditions are based in rationality and proceed from that into the "trans-mental" realm. By contrast, in unhealthy groups, there appears to be very little rationality anywhere in their attitudes and behavior, and the group dynamics are rife with dysfunctional thinking.

* Anti-scientific thinking. Healthy persons and groups can constructively express criticism of reductionist scientism and limitations in the current scientific paradigm. But the danger with dysfunctional cults is their frequent emphasis on pre-scientific, mythical thinking and on bizarre, unverifiable claims that can’t be consensually validated by rational persons.

* A “uni-level” obsession with health and wealth on the material plane (Richard Anthony). Healthy groups promote authentic (“multi-level”) spiritual growth[5] and “adaptation to transpersonal structural stages” (Ken Wilber).

* Emphasis on quirky, flaky, untested ideas. Obsession with fantasy or mythic thinking. Obsession with “the Evil One” (though an understanding of evil and the psyche’s shadow side is important for mature spiritual persons). Scary apocalypse-thinking, battleground mentality, or construing of events or souls in excessively dualistic categories of “Good” vs. “Evil.” In a healthy spiritual group, the human being is viewed neither as totally evil nor totally perfect but seen realistically as a fallible human whose source and true identity is Infinite Spirit, and whose potential is profound peace, bliss, freedom and love in authentic realization of God/Spirit. Beware excessive talk of heaven and hell, which promotes egocentric, authoritarian thinking about reward and punishment. A healthy group adheres to a time-tested worldview with a balanced theology, emphasizing complete transcendence of the Divine as well as the complete immanence of the Divine: God is beyond all yet within all. That is to say, there is neither imbalance toward an otherworldly, biophobic “ascender” orientation, nor a this-worldly, non-mystical, “descended” position.[6]

* Intellectual parochialism or isolation from other worldviews; censorship or control of what people read; prevention of studying sacred texts from other traditions or visiting other genuine spiritual masters. A healthy spiritual group is open to spiritual truth from whatever source, and knows how to distinguish wise from unwise teachings (for example, see my criteria for genuine spiritual realization elsewhere in the Healthy Spirituality section of this website [see menu tabs at upper left of this webpage]).

* Orwellian double-speak (Deikman: “manipulating language to suggest a meaning and value opposite to the real situation”). Codewords or buzzwords. Excessive use of slogans to bypass critical thinking. Manipulative rhetoric based on cunning or emotionalism. Reinvention of language—e.g., excessive amount of jargon—to widen gulf between insiders and outsiders and exert mind-control. Adopting new names and titles for members can also be suspect, especially when it is done to create insider group-dynamics. However, we must be aware that, in a positive vein, changing members’ names can facilitate a new sense of identity, less conditioned by former ego tendencies; monastics in major religions, for instance, undergo name changes to help effect a psychological “death” to the old ego-persona.

* Beware enforcement of conformity in apparel and external behavior. These are not, in themselves, negative things, but, like new names for members, can be part of an overall unhealthy cult strategy to amplify insider/outsider dichotomies, destroy autonomy and insure compliance.

* Fascination with secrets or occult teachings and practices that promote an insider-outsider split. Beware any series of initiations that create intrigue and stratify group into levels with higher, elite superiors outranking inferior, lower members. Beware obsessions with magical rituals for empowering egoic aims.

* Excessive fascination with altered states of consciousness. For instance, chronically being in a mindless trance state (“navel-gazing”) can preclude deeper levels of spiritual realization as well as community service and enacting justice on behalf of fellow living beings who are subject to various forms of economic, social, political, racial/ethnic, gender or environmental injustice.

* Over-use of junk food or adherence to unhealthy diets. Beware any use of mind-altering drugs (unless they are part of one’s ancient tradition, as among the Huichol and other tribal people).

* Beware exploitation of sex in any form. Sometimes this may be rationalized as “good” for the group member. But every person has the right to refrain from sexual activity as s/he sees fit, without any kind of pressure.

* Legalistic obsession with myriad rules. Enslavement to authoritarian, military-style organization and procedure. Every group needs guidelines and rules, but when the form of the religion becomes more important than authentic spiritual experience, the group is in trouble and idolatry is a danger. The group needs to be flexible, adaptable, and open to new developments that would involve changes in guidelines and policies to better serve the members and society.

* Obsession with invisible or other-worldly entities or forces other than God. The issue is not whether these entities/forces exist—the subtle planes of energy and hyper-dimensional realms are evidently filled with all sorts of unusual beings and processes (including the souls of ancestors, saints and spirit guides, troubled souls, et al.). The relevant issue here is that obsession with demons, angels, aliens, ascended masters, ghosts, etc., undermines authentic realization of the transcendent/immanent Spirit, the one Divine Self of us all.

Comment by nicholas fowler on March 29, 2012 at 11:59pm

all typical signs of a cult from what I understand of cults. cult mentality.. but i have said it all before. if those who follow ZT and its leader, and compare them to the way other cults have gone, hero worship, obsessiveness in relation to its beliefs, , religions also show this kind of mentality, all religions, at the lower level, they work on the same principles, the Roman Catholic church, speaking as a lapsed, very lapsed member, who went through all the years of the fifties and sixties , sadly people, are in need of an education in mass psychology. But more often it is the followers of the cult who reinforce the behavior patterns of the leader of the cult. in effect they feed of each other, mutualy reinforcing. it forms a feedback loop, and right at the center of it are some very little , delicate egos,

Comment by Cheryl Nelson on March 29, 2012 at 4:23pm

Nicholas, that was my bottom line.  A enlightened being, service to others (STO), would not engage in the behavior that I personally observed.  What I witnessed were put-downs, false accusations, using her power to sway opinion, using that same power to encourage her followers to break the law, slander/libel, using ZT as justification for murder of perceived enemies, character assassination, interfering with a third-party relationship, theft, spying, out-of-control rage, retaliation, and vengeance.  These are not STO behaviors, no matter how hard she tries to justify them.  This is not defamation because defamation needs an element of untruth.  I have proof of all these things, many of which were presented in self-defense in my blog, A Modest Rebuttal.  And if the Zetas she claims to still be in contact with are putting up with that kind of behavior, then they are not the good Zetas.  A person is known by the company s/he keeps.  But I lean towards there having been legitimate contact early on, but then it was abandoned. 

While I have forgiven her, I feel obligated to warn people to not be deceived by her.  It is wrong to hold a grudge against her, no matter how heinous her behavior has been. It just builds up bad karma.  So, for everyone who has negative feelings toward her, this will be a good spiritual exercise:  forgive her and send some light and love her way.  As one of the moderators at the other site told her when he resigned, "You have chosen a hard path."  And indeed she has.  Maybe we can help lighten her load a little.

Comment by Cheryl Nelson on March 29, 2012 at 3:07pm

Vickie, I too see the difference between the early years and the later years, and 2003 could have been the issue where the Zetas parted company with her.  I know of one person who did the same thing (parted company) but went against personal knowing and rejoined.  It's sad to think that people believe their salvation will come from that group when there are many worthwhile groups that are so willing to help. 

Yes, "Independent Thinking" is the smoking gun that something went wrong somewhere.

No galactic passport for us!  We'll contaminate the universe. I've read that even setting off nukes can harm the galactic neighborhood.

I remember reading that some bad Zetas slipped through and some other race caught them and brought them before one of the federations over it.  Of course, this is internet hearsay and we'll never know this side of the veil. I've read things about the Zetas and seen pictures that don't match what ZT said, but then again, there are a number of varieties of Zetas.  In fact, there was no mention of a lot of the varieties of Zetas out there in ZT, and the few that were shown didn't even have the names of their species.  In some recall I've had about being aboard spacecraft, I never saw her.  There were other races there having meetings, but she wasn't there. 

And yes, the Zetas were always adamant about giving no dates.  They even said that factors were constantly changing and it was impossible to give a date.  Then suddenly dates are given and they fail.  If the Zetas were intent upon discrediting themselves, "they" chose the right way to go about it.  Of course, it wasn't them giving wrong dates, just human ego.

Comment by nicholas fowler on March 29, 2012 at 3:06pm

I agree with everything Vicky says, your  analyses is for me correct on every point. one has to read ZT and NL , the leader of the website, with a completely open mind. one benchmark I use is this . how would an enlightened being who has  a raised consciousness and is filled with LIGHT, behave? how would the man Yeheshua, born 2000 years ago behave? this is the  ultimate final  marker we should look for. I believe she was at one time genuine, and contacted by these beings, however it may be after her first contact, she has since embellished and created all sorts of imaginings around this initial experience. and if these beings are of the Light, and have telepathic powers, they would detect things in Nanci's psyche, and maybe after say 2003, the contacts may have faded away. but Nancy kept imagining she was in touch with them and with a large following, boosting her prestige we have the present mess. But back to my initial question, how can a woman of seventy with limited resources pay for let alone create the websites she has? I believe she was a programmer at one time, and it is said she was once Bill Hamiltons wife and there are issues stemming from the Promise software that Bill Hamilton developed.

I strongly believe the deeper we go into Zeta Talk, and its leader, the more complex and even dark it becomes.

Comment by Cheryl Nelson on March 29, 2012 at 2:42pm

With the support she gets, I think so.


Always demand proof, proof is the elementary courtesy that is anyone’s due.  —Paul Valéry, "Monsieur Teste"

Is That Winged Object Really Planet X? Maybe Not!

Here's a NASA deconstruction image showing the central personnel area and three force shields:

See for the video it came from (40:23 etc).

Indonesia Plate NOT Collapsing -- The TruEarth Images offered by ZT as "proof" are 11 years old! 

Oh, Buoy! (Misinterpreted buoy charts)

Deconstructing Nancy Lieder and her Zetatalk



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